Cold-calling is awkward to begin with. Imagine then, how mortgage broker Sergey Pokoldin felt over the past two years as he dialed the numbers of real estate agents not knowing they were Ukrainian … and greeted them in Russian.
A Russian-speaking mortgage broker who owns Florida-based Viva Mortgage, Pokoldin said he has felt confusion and dismay in the "awkward" instances in which he cold-called Ukrainian real estate agents and spoke in Russian with them.
"Some start talking back to me in very bad English," Pokoldin said. "And I know right off the bat that we're not going to be able to communicate, we're going to struggle … and it just becomes so awkward, there's so much shame around it that it's unbearable."
Pokoldin, who is originally from Kazakhstan, said that since Russia's invasion into Ukraine started in February 2022, he has run into numerous instances where "Ukrainians get super offended" when he speaks Russian.
Russia's encroaching onto
Real estate agents and mortgage industry participants from post-Soviet states say the war has impacted relationships between one another, made dialogue with some clients strained, complicated the flow of business and has contributed to an overall feeling of unease.
The Russian language itself, which was spoken by all 15 member states of the former Soviet Union, has become to some a symbol of the invasion, creating hiccups in communication that once was simple among the Eastern European diaspora. Even just being Russian has started to raise eyebrows, some have claimed.
But professionals from both sides say they aim for a business-as-usual approach.
Nadii Glavin, a Ukrainian real estate agent based out of Chicago, used to speak Russian with Eastern European clients and loan officers, but now is staying away from it.
"I'm trying to not use Russian anymore, I'm trying to stick to Ukrainian and English just because during the centuries the Russian government was suppressing us for using our language," Glavin said. "It's coming back right now and they're spreading their culture and horror. I want to try to stay away from Russia and speak just Ukrainian"
Glavin, who picks up her clients in a car with a huge Ukrainian flag draped across the front, notes that as long as her clients and loan originator partners are openly against the war, or do not comment on it at all, it's fine.
She recalls one instance where she had a Russian client that saw the flag on Glavin's car and right away expressed support, by saying "Glory to Ukraine."
"She told me she feels ashamed and sad that this is what's happening," the real estate agent said. "It was important that my clients share strong opinions, supportive of the Ukrainian side. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to take somebody like that."
Oleg Baliuk, a Ukrainian real estate agent in Illinois, had similar sentiments, noting he tries to also stay away from the Russian language. However, for him it's on a case-to-case basis. He is not bothered if a client is Russian or only Russian-speaking, as long as they are decent human beings, he said.
"I would prefer not to work with people who support invasion but other people who speak Russian as I said, they could be from all over the world. Some people don't speak English and they happen to be speaking Russian … it's not that big of a deal. I would say it's more personality."
The population of those living in the U.S. whose origin is from a
Russians are met with an extra dose of skepticism today, some say.
A mortgage executive who requested anonymity said investors stopped buying mortgage-backed securities from them at the start of the war due to reputational risk.
As such, the executive spent a year convincing investors that they had no Russian affiliations.
"I had to travel and talk to all of our buyers," they said. "If you speak Russian, regardless of your nationality, there is a geopolitical game, so everyone thinks you might be connected to Russia … I'm not sure why that is, but that's how it works."
Meanwhile, Pokoldin, who runs Viva Mortgage with his Russian wife, said there have been instances where customers refused to work with his spouse because of where she's from. Most recently, a Ukrainian couple was referred to the Pokoldins from a Ukrainian real estate agent partner.
"We were sent a lead and so my wife started talking to her and then out of the blue the lady asked my wife where she's from … and she said she's from Russia," Pokoldin said. "The lady started being a bit defensive and [we almost lost the deal because of this.]"
"So we decided to switch the couple to me … I'm from Kazakhstan, so maybe in their eyes I'm neutral. I can't help but think that it's kind of disrespectful to my wife since she had nothing to do with this. She's just being branded as a bad person."
The loan amount was close to $450,000. It is unclear whether the deal actually closed as of August.
Mortgage loan officers with Slavic roots say there was an awkwardness in interpersonal relationships when the war started. Now, more than two years into the conflict, the dynamics of their day-to-day business have returned to normal, said Ukrainian mortgage broker Yaro Hnatenko. "If someone has a different perspective, that's fine, as long as it doesn't interrupt the business," he added.
Hnatenko said he understands why Ukranians are moving away from the Russian language but says that "at the same time there's a lot of folks in Ukraine who speak Russian."
"I cannot judge people by the way they speak in Russian because you never know who you're actually talking to," the mortgage broker said. "I am continuing my social media in Russian. I continue my social media in English. So to be honest, I don't personally use social media in Ukrainian. My audience is primarily the Russian speaking audience."
Alex Naumovych, a Ukrainian loan officer at First Alliance Home Mortgage, has another story to tell from the mortgage lending perspective. Naumovych, who is originally from Ternopil, Ukraine, says he moved to cut ties with real estate partners who were vocally supporting Russia's invasion.
"My clients and I never talk about politics, and I never ask which former Soviet country they are from," Naumovych said in a previous interview. "Though there were some instances where I've stopped collaborating with real estate agents that have spoken out in support of Russia's invasion."
But not all participants in the mortgage industry feel that the war has changed any interpersonal dynamics. A Russian-speaking IT professional who works for a mortgage-related company and requested anonymity said that since he has no colleagues from the former Soviet states, he hasn't noticed a change.
"When I get into a cab or I'm in a public setting and I see a Slavic-looking person, maybe at first I get nervous about telling them that I'm Russian or speaking in Russian to them, but at work, it's business as usual," they said.
Naturally, interpersonal rifts due to geopolitics are not only siloed to those impacted by the war in Ukraine, but extends to other global crises as well.
According to Alex Margulis, a loan officer at CrossCountry Mortgage, he is far more concerned about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, despite his Ukrainian heritage.
"I'm not from Ukraine, I'm not from Russia, I'm from the former Soviet Union, which was kind of jumbled up into one physical territory. I was born in the Republic of Ukraine, but don't have any particular allegiance to the country of Ukraine," said Margulis. "Personally my concern is more with what's going on in Israel and in the Middle East rather than with Russia."
"If somebody's very vocal in favor of a terrorist organization, the relationship would end out of principle … business aside because that's secondary. In that case, we're all human beings to have a sense of right or wrong in my opinion," he added.
