NFM Lending exec Greg Sher on advocating for IMBs

February 26, 2024 4:00 AM

Greg Sher, managing director at NFM Lending, is piping up on topics many in the mortgage industry would balk at discussing on the record.

On LinkedIn, Sher has written posts about mergers and acquisitions, FICO moving to raise the cost of soft-pulls, "mediocre recruiters" and how some vendors have dropped the ball in supporting lending clients.

In the past 90 days, his posts have had close to 1 million impressions, LinkedIn stats shared with National Mortgage News show. The engagement he's seen with those posts highlight a "leadership void in mortgage," which has been amplified with the passing of Dave Stevens, former FHA commissioner and industry advocate, Sher said.

"When he passed, I felt a responsibility to help advocate and shoulder some of the burdens of our industry," said Sher. "Dave was a giant person, a giant force, and no one of us can fill that void, but if I can inspire one person a day, regardless of their title, to step out of their comfort zone and speak about an issue they're passionate about, I will have made Dave very proud."

Founded in 1998 and headquartered in Linthicium, Maryland, NFM Lending ranked 24th among 2023's top overall lenders by Scotsman Guide. In 2021, Sher co-founded the company's influencer division, which draws leads from those engaging with content from select loan originators posting on Tiktok, Instagram, Youtube and beyond.

"I grew up around marketing and TV, so when I saw on video people talking about mortgages and I saw the traction they were getting with follows, likes and comments, it really was a centennial moment for me," said Sher. "I realized what an opportunity was before me and the mortgage industry, so I seized it."

Currently, the division, which has generated close to 65,000 leads and over $400 million in closed volume, has 14 influencers and it is looking to keep growing.

"Anyone who feels the future of their business is going to be around their brand, they come to NFM and we coach them on how to communicate with customers through social media," he said.

It was a natural extension for Sher himself to become an influencer for others working in home finance with his posts sounding off on the issues of the day. Sher sat down with National Mortgage News to discuss how he plans to use his social media platform to bring the mortgage industry together, NFM Lending's influencer division and the importance of empathy during a time of turbulence for IMBs.

Tell me a little bit about NFM’s influencer division.

I grew up around marketing and TV, so when I saw on video people talking about mortgages and I saw the traction they were getting with follows, likes and comments, it really was a centennial moment for me. I realized what an opportunity was before me and the mortgage industry, so I seized it.

I reached out to the number one influencer on Tiktok, his name is Scott Betley, his handle is @thatmortgageguy. He's got over a million followers on multiple platforms combined and at the beginning we talked about this idea of building a larger team of influencers where we could take advantage of organic communication with customers, sometimes even before they know they want to get a home. After I brought Betley in, I brought others in and it really worked and we generated 65,000 leads in the first 33 months of this endeavor. And, you know, despite the challenges in the market, we've closed as a result of the division over $400 million in volume over that period of time.

I'm of the belief that this is a glimpse into the future. As generations come up that are more accustomed to making decisions on their phones, the more they're going to enter the home buying process earlier before they have an agent, before they have a loan officer, before they themselves even know they want to purchase a home.

I always like to say Rocket Mortgage had the right idea, 'push button, get mortgage.' They spent so much money on that. I think we've learned that most consumers don't want to do the entire transaction from beginning to end without some human interaction. So I believe it's not 'push button get a mortgage,' I believe it's 'push, follow, get mortgage.' And so as Gen Z continues to bubble up, more and more people are going to enter the home buying process organically by being inspired by somebody they really admire and follow.

You’ve become an influencer yourself. In recent months you’ve ramped up your posts regarding issues impacting the mortgage industry. What’s your motivation for this?

I had a very meaningful relationship with David Stevens and felt very connected with him. I felt his love, felt his passion for the industry. And when he was alive and still advocating for us, I had the concern, and I spoke with him about it many times, about the lack of CEOs at the IMB level, speaking up and advocating for anything but their own companies. I didn't understand, and still don't, why we don't have anybody in major leadership positions talking publicly about things that globally affect so many.

And then when Dave passed, I felt like it became much more urgent because we lost our voice. No matter what, no matter how much infighting, or how many lawsuits were being slung around amongst IMBs, Stevens was always in the background kind of steering us. We were always okay because he was the ultimate insurance policy.

I [feel] a responsibility to help advocate and shoulder some of the burdens of our industry. Dave was a giant person, a giant force, and no one of us can fill that void. But if I can inspire one person a day, regardless of their title, to step out of their comfort zone and speak about an issue they're passionate about, I will have made Dave very proud.

In the past month, two notable acquisitions took place – New American Funding acquired Draper and Kramer and Guild Mortgage acquired Academy Mortgage. What do these transactions signal to you?

I think what we're learning is that it's a lot easier to build than it is to deconstruct and each situation is unique. I don't think you could paint a broad brush on any one of the mergers or acquisitions. Some of it is from desperation, some of it is out of opportunity and what's best for the people in the institution, which is the most selfless thing an owner can do.

There's been a lot of pain for a long time. And you can only take, in some instances, eight consecutive quarters of losses. No corporation is really built for that. Even with the windfall that came with COVID, I think everyone thought that it would turn much faster than it has and that's put some very good companies in the crosshairs. Of all the IMBs I've ever known, Academy and Draper and Kramer reputationally have always been at or near the absolute top in terms of how their employees view the experience working there and to that degree, both names really surprised me.

I think we're in for one to three more surprises. Some of them are not going to be surprises. Some of them are names that have been rumored and talked about that very well could be acquired. And I think the next 90 days, if the bond continues to be at around 4% or higher, you're going to see some significant activity.

For companies shuttering or being acquired, how in your opinion should executives handle winding down their business?

Being honest, being transparent, being vulnerable and offering support. Those are a few of the things which you would think would be second nature and natural. That's the kind of human side of it.

There's a business side of it, as well, where as we saw with one of the names you mentioned, a company clearly is just managing the dollars and cents.

This is an unprecedented moment in time. I just encourage everyone to be extra sensitive to all the pain that's out there. And if your company is in danger, be honest.

There's obviously varying degrees of compassion that are shown in each transaction that takes place, so I'm sure there are companies that have tried to do all the right things and I'm sure there are companies that really haven't cared to do any of the right things, and everything in between.

Should the mortgage industry be hiring at this point in time?

Mortgage companies absolutely should be hiring. There are still some companies out there growing, so it's not all doom and gloom out there.

There's some companies that are just coming up that didn't feel all the pain of the last two and a half years and they're still in a growth mindset, picking up market share, and those companies should continue to grow.

I know a lot of companies have met these times by farming some work out overseas at a much cheaper wage. And that is a way you can go, but the problem with that is then you end up still with a lot of unemployed great people domestically. But I don't think there's any one right or wrong answer.

We need to get as many of these people back to work as we can. The difference this time around for all of us as leaders is we all have to be really honest with folks, particularly in operations, and not make statements like 'We never lay anyone off.' If this past downturn has proven anything, it's that you can't make those statements and all bets are off. You just have to be honest with people that this is a cyclical business.

Do you have any recommendations for LOs making a jump between employers and signing off on big bonuses with clawback clauses?

What I would recommend, which I've not seen done before, is to sign a contract with a probationary period where none of the bonuses kick in until 90 days of employment to make sure it's a good fit for you and your family. By doing so, you have a way out, you can lock in the money if it seems like the right fit for you, but if it's not, and you feel you may have made a misjudgment, you have a way out.

Going forward and envisioning a new paradigm of how mortgage companies are run, what roles, in your opinion, can be taken out to better enhance the function of a mortgage company?

I think the role of the regional manager needs to be looked at. Companies should look at the demand they make on the regional leader to help their regions grow organically, not just help the company grow with one massive wave of people that are loyal to them. Because oftentimes, divisionals come in, they bring a group and their job is to maintain what they bring. There are some exceptions, some incredible divisional recruiters, so I don't want to describe them all with a blanket statement.

There are [also] too many hands in loans. Some single originators have two or three different assistants that help them and they're not even that big of producers. Rather than have three people do three different functions, cross train so your people are more diverse and can do all three functions in one role.

Talk a little bit about your post where you outlined your “CRM experience from hell experience.”

The reactions on the post underscores that some vendors have lost sight of why we all got into this business — and that's relationships. Just like mortgage companies have had to cut [headcount], tech has had to cut too because they traditionally get paid per seat or closing.

They're thinner and the customer service aspect is unfortunately not as important as survival. I think the post really resonated with people and reminded them of all the great relationships they had with their vendors.

I was told from multiple vendors this was the wake-up call. Dave Savage [founder of Mortgage Coach] being one, Brian Vieaux [president at FinLocker] being another. They took the post comments and put them in front of their teams and said 'Don't ever let us be this vendor. This is a reminder of who we need to be and what our purpose is here and the relationship and how important it is to never lose sight of that.'

I think it was polarizing for IMBs and also for tech in itself. It really struck a nerve. I've never seen anything like it. The post received over 45,000 views.

You have to be properly staffed to communicate properly and with so many people struggling in the industry to stay afloat, to meet their goals, to generate the revenue they need to be adequately staffed...it's more about survival in a lot of instances than service.

We're looking at other options [for CRMs right now] and let me just say, the folks at ICE Mortgage Technology have been very responsive to my post. They've been extremely classy. They want to work with us. They want to make it right. I commend them for the effort that they've made, but it doesn't mean we'll stay. We very well might use this moment in time as our jumping off point.

Name the top like three issues on your mind that are impacting the mortgage industry.

Affordability. That's a major one. It's at an all-time low right now. It's just too hard for minorities and underserved communities to even dream about a house.

The cannibalization of one another is a concern of mine. All the infighting that is a concern of mine. Capitol Hill sees that. They see how we're behaving. They see that we can't even get along with each other, and can't even keep our own houses in order. How are we going to serve the consumer? Are we a danger to ourselves? That really concerns me as well.

As the traction of many of my recent posts supports, there's a leadership void in mortgage. There are too many links in the mortgage chain that feel muted. This continues to be a concern and I encourage anyone that's passionate about this industry, regardless of rank or even employment status, to speak up and share viewpoints. That will ensure we stay strong as an industry and continue to grow and learn.